“From the Amazon we see that the government has not been able to stop deforestation”: Mateo Estrada

Interview with the indigenous leader of the Siriano people and expert on Climate change of the Organization of Indigenous Peoples of the Colombian Amazon (OPIAC).

Ambiente y Sociedad interviewed Mateo Estrada, indigenous leader of the Syrian people and expert on Climate Change of the Organization of Indigenous Peoples of the Colombian Amazon (OPIAC), where he explains what the role of the Amazon is in meeting climate commitments. He also notes that the government has included them little in determining these goals.

 -What do you know about the Paris Agreements, the commitments signed by Colombia and their importance for reducing climate change on the planet?

-We, from the National Organization of Indigenous Peoples of the Colombian Amazon (OPIAC) and the Coordinator of Indigenous Organizations of the Amazon Basin (COICA), have participated in different international spaces that have to do with the United Nations Framework Convention Nations on Climate Change. Among them: the Paris Agreement and in the design and approach of nationally determined goals. However, these issues in Colombia have not been socialized with the general population, with local communities or local indigenous authorities. “I think there is still a lot to do, but we have been participating in some part of it,” says the leader.

– Within the agenda of the indigenous government of the Amazon, have there been proposals raised to reduce climate change?

-We, as an internal initiative, have not worked directly with the perspective of the government and the international community, but more in our own way. For example, when we were building the indigenous Pillar of Amazon Vision we had to rely heavily on international agreements, but let’s also say on our own indigenous initiative, in spaces such as Indigenous Life Plans, our own Territorial Ordinance or our own Environmental Management Plan, we have also carried out conservation projects, but not as a government requirement.

-Who, in the government, have you been in contact with to work and articulate the whole issue of the Paris Agreement?

-We have a very direct dialogue with the Ministry of the Environment with the sub-directorate of education and participation. Also with the sub-directorate of climate change and very officially with Visión Amazonía.

– Could you give an example of some of your own projects in favor of climate change?

-For example, we have worked on the entire issue of the carbon market in the Colombian Amazon, within the framework of adaptation and mitigation of climate change. But we have also worked in the case of Caquetá region with an incentive on adaptation to climate change from chagras (crops) and the conservation of traditional seeds. Also in Guainía we have worked with seeds and chagras based on traditional knowledge. The great challenge of the Amazonian part is not public policies, but climate change, because when it comes to changing our diet, our way of life totally changes, so we have done different projects on the subject.

-Did you take part in the process of updating the NDC in Colombia? What are your recommendations?

-No, it has not been easy to work with this government on the execution and organization of different programs that lead to the fulfillment of those agreements. It has been very difficult because it has not been possible to advance in the agreements of the National Development Plan that has to do with all the issues. We asked the Ministry of the Environment to take us into account in the new design, but they have ignored it. We have proposed that work should be done in the post-2020 framework of the Convention on Biological Diversity. We hope that in 2021 and 2022 more progress can be made and an international advocacy agenda be made because the agreements must be complied with.

 -Which of the traditional practices of indigenous peoples contribute to the NDC?

-I always say that we Amazonians have a particularity: the name of each one of us responds to the name of a tree or responds to the name of a place. So from the beginning there is a direct relationship between indigenous peoples, territory and nature. Our way of conserving forests and territories has to do with our culture, our way of life. It has nothing to do with thought but is habit. In order to conserve the forests, we need the government to observe four basic things: first, that they recognize that in indigenous territories, including the figure of protection, they are essential to conserve the entire environment, not just the protected area; second, that there are clearly cultural development plans planned for the jungle, which are indigenous plans for the Amazon that are already in place designed to conserve forests; third that the indigenous authorities are

authorities in their territory; Finally, it must be recognized that we are essential actors and that is why we have our own spaces with departmental tables and other suitable spaces for equal dialogue between the government and indigenous communities. If this was recognized, they would be able to structure long-term programs of great impact for international agreements and the results will be achieved.

-During these five years, since the Agreement was signed, have you seen changes in reducing deforestation or pollution in the jungle?

-We, from the Amazon, see that the government has not been able to stop deforestation. One of the people who is in charge of making disorder in the Amazon is the same international operations through NGOs. They carry out unfinished, inappropriate programs and purely study programs. In the Amazon we do not need more studies, what we need are effective projects that address the problems we have already identified. The other thing is that this government has not been one of conservation, but has tried to exploit everything based on the development of the economy and does not want to meet the minimum human rights.

–What was the response of the National Government and the country’s environmental authorities to the crisis after forest fires that the Amazon experienced last year and that left more than 72 million hectares lost?

-The government in Colombia does not have a program for the prevention, containment or attention to natural disasters, including fires (caused or not). These deforested places are currently being used for livestock, they are being appropriated by other external factors such as Guaviare and Caquetá, part of Vichada and southern Meta. The government has to develop a very impartial policy for these territories. Now in December and January the waves of fires can start again that will continue to deforest and there are still no prevention policies.

-One of the Colombian agreements was directly related to: programs for the conservation of ecosystems, protection of Paramo, creation of new protected areas and restoration of degraded areas. As indigenous organizations that inhabit these territories, have you seen any change or “increased protection” of protected areas in the last five years? Would you highlight any of these processes?

-The prior consultation is not seen as something with added value, something so that there is no collateral damage to biodiversity and natural resources. If that was attended to, I believe that it would not be necessary to demand so much from conservation but rather to compliance with the minimum international and national standards. So we do believe that agribusiness and infrastructure projects must be connected within the framework of transparency and equal conditions. With this government, prior consultations have not been useful because there are indications to the indigenous communities when we ask for these requirements and thus it is not possible to dialogue.

-You said that food sovereignty is one of the most important aspects of your culture, how is it being affected by climate change?

-We, the Amazonian people, the essence of our food are the crops of the chagra(crops). There are two types of chagra: one that is like the smaller box called stubble chagra and the other chagra that is more or less than one hectare that we call monte bravo. These crops have been affected with the beginning of summer because essential products such as cassava are damaged. Winter affects us too. Another issue was the pandemic, because we exchange seeds, but with all the COVID-19 we were locked in one place and the food ran out in 7 or 8 months.

-Another important issue in these international agreements is the protection of environmental leaders. Have you seen progress on this issue?

-I worked for a long time on human rights and I had to stop doing it because I was kidnapped. So for 15 years I have only worked on environmental issues, but I realized that I returned to the same danger. The current government does not have the will to protect leaders who work to defend environmental rights. One of the things that shows this is that the Escazú Agreement has not been ratified because it is the first ideal element for the protection of environmental leaders and protects transparency in these processes. The government has not adopted and has shown that it does not have that will.

-Do you think that the government has included your communities in decision-making, projects or has it openly explained how they can be articulated to fulfill the commitments signed in the Paris Agreement?

-We have worked on the environmental issue rather internally, from the communities. We have also proposed to the government that we must unify proposals towards upcoming international events, such as COP 2021, which is going to be in Scotland. We must bring clear approaches to indigenous peoples between governments, NGOs and indigenous communities. We hope that the government has that will, there is a new environment minister so we hope to move forward.